OrgoneConclusion Are you serious?
?
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 31,955
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We often read about a galactic event happening tens of thousands of years ago whose light is just now reaching us. Yes, I get the fact that these objects are tens of thousands of light years away, but as there is no universal clock, are they not in fact, happening now as far as we are concerned?
When we watch live events (not on cable) we are already looking at the past because the light and sound takes time to reach us, even if only 50 yards away.
My contention is that if the information is received as fast as allowed by physics, does that not make it the present?
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DieCommie El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,239
Loc: Street of Dreams
No.
Harri 
Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 1,353
same with the signals that come from your eyes to your brain, thats takes some time as well.
OrgoneConclusion Are you serious?
?
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 31,955
Loc: One plank length
Quote:
DieCommie said:
No.
Please clarify how you know exactly what the present is without a universal clock to measure against.
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Midnight_Toker Strange
Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 5,130
Loc: Canada
Because time is relative.? It's the present as far as you're concerned, but those things did in fact happen in the distant past.
OrgoneConclusion Are you serious?
?
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 31,955
Loc: One plank length
Quote:
Harri said:
same with the signals that come from your eyes to your brain, thats takes some time as well.
"LIVE from New York, it's Saturday Night! Well, for those in Indiana, this was broadcast 860 nanoseconds ago and for those in California, you are looking 1440 nanoseconds into the past and... "
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OrgoneConclusion Are you serious?
?
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 31,955
Loc: One plank length
Quote:
Midnight_Toker said:
Because time is relative.? It's the present as far as you're concerned, but those things did in fact happen in the distant past.
What does that mean exactly? To make such a statement one would need a universal and unvarying clock.
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LunarEclipse Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 8,415
Loc: Sugar Town
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:Quote:
Harri said:
same with the signals that come from your eyes to your brain, thats takes some time as well."LIVE from New York, it's Saturday Night! Well, for those in Indiana, this was broadcast 860 nanoseconds ago and for those in California, you are looking 1440 nanoseconds into the past and... "
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:Quote:
Midnight_Toker said:
Because time is relative.? It's the present as far as you're concerned, but those things did in fact happen in the distant past.What does that mean exactly? To make such a statement one would need a universal and unvarying clock.
By unvarying does that mean it doesn't tick?? If it did you couldn't hear it in space.? You'd be dead anyway trying.
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lolwut Dark Horse
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 1,234
Loc: Jupiter and beyo
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
We often read about a galactic event happening tens of thousands of years ago whose light is just now reaching us. Yes, I get the fact that these objects are tens of thousands of light years away, but as there is no universal clock, are they not in fact, happening now as far as we are concerned?When we watch live events (not on cable) we are already looking at the past because the light and sound takes time to reach us, even if only 50 yards away.
My contention is that if the information is received as fast as allowed by physics, does that not make it the present?
The clock used is relevant to our own frame of reference, that is we have already defined a universal zero point to refer to. To an alien lifeforce x-years away the event would of occurred xy-years in the past.
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Terrified the morning you woke up and realized that if and when you jump ship, you either swim for shore or drown. Don't let the fuckers drag you down.
OrgoneConclusion Are you serious?
?
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 31,955
Loc: One plank length
Quote:
To an alien lifeforce x-years away the event would of occurred xy-years in the past.
Would of? 
As a year is the time it takes for our planet to make one revolution around our star. I doubt the aliens measure their time according to our solar cycles and 26,000 years ago here, our ancestors would not be witnessing any such event.
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lolwut Dark Horse
Registered: 08/14/10
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xy-alien-years
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Terrified the morning you woke up and realized that if and when you jump ship, you either swim for shore or drown. Don't let the fuckers drag you down.
OrgoneConclusion Are you serious?
?
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 31,955
Loc: One plank length
The point I am attempting to make is there is no clear-cut and universal 'present moment' that all frames of reference would agree upon. Thus talking about something happening 26,000 years ago in our frame of reference makes sense, but applying the same metric to a far distant event does not.
I contend that the supernova we are seeing now is happening now.
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lolwut Dark Horse
Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 1,234
Loc: Jupiter and beyo
Last seen: 7 minutes, 45 seconds
Well time is just a human invention to describe change. Everything is just an expansion of the same energy unravelling itself, so I guess there is only one real moment, we just split it into units.
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Terrified the morning you woke up and realized that if and when you jump ship, you either swim for shore or drown. Don't let the fuckers drag you down.
DieCommie El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,239
Loc: Street of Dreams
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:Quote:
DieCommie said:
No.Please clarify how you know exactly what the present is without a universal clock to measure against.
What is a 'universal' clock and how does that differ from a nonuniversal clock?
All you need is a clock, 'universal' has nothing to do with it.
DieCommie El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,239
Loc: Street of Dreams
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
The point I am attempting to make is there is no clear-cut and universal 'present moment' that all frames of reference would agree upon. Thus talking about something happening 26,000 years ago in our frame of reference makes sense, but applying the same metric to a far distant event does not.I contend that the supernova we are seeing now is happening now.
I dont think you are using the phrase 'frame of reference' quite right here.? If you are talking about this in a physics and relativity sense then a distant galaxy can be in our frame of reference.? And if not there is a relation to transform time in its frame of reference to ours.? How far way an object is does not affect its frame of reference, how fast it is traveling is.
OrgoneConclusion Are you serious?
?
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 31,955
Loc: One plank length
'Now' has yet to be defined in this discussion. The dictionary states it is 'the present moment' which seems rather vague.
If we wind the earth back 26,000 revolutions, what does it mean to say that the distant supernova is happening at the same time as the dawn of human civilization? According to what metric are we equating them?
I am having a hard time explaining what I am trying to get across.
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Cactilove Mystic
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 3,238
Last seen: 6 hours, 46 minutes
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I don't nor ever will know shit, stop acting like I do!
Stop claiming I have magic powers!
LunarEclipse Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 8,415
Loc: Sugar Town
Quote:
Cactilove said:
Ya dude it's happening right here right now.
Perhaps time can be seen more as a place or point of Origen.
Here is always now, so I would agree with you.
Here There and Everywhere
Time as a Continuum
All In Good Time
Making Time
Don't Waste Your Time
Take Your Time
Now Is The Time
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Don't worry be happy.
redgreenvines irregular verb
?
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 14,243
Living in the present has to do with experiencing and reacting to what you experience.
We react to what is close to us, things that are basically and for the most part in our own immediate time zone.
Some things beyond our little time zone can send signals to us that we cannot respond to, and some of those signals take millions of years to arrive (eg stars nebulae & galaxies).
The signals are real enough that we can enjoy them with other people in our immediate timezone. we can even come up with models describing what the signals are from and project where the bodies that issued them are now, forming a mind boggling map of space.
Skype lets us telepresence to other timezones on the planet and we can share that way (electronically) too.
I think you can refine your question down to "What are the ways we can share experience?"
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teknix ????
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 6,915
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
The point I am attempting to make is there is no clear-cut and universal 'present moment' that all frames of reference would agree upon. Thus talking about something happening 26,000 years ago in our frame of reference makes sense, but applying the same metric to a far distant event does not.I contend that the supernova we are seeing now is happening now.
There are multiple nows, like how do I know that that super nova you are seeing now is the same as the super nova I am seeing now? Maybe my green is your blue but we just call them the same?
We see the effects now, yet we miss the cause.
Edited by teknix (11/09/12 08:00 AM)
Source: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17186232
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